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Virtual Kidnapping with Titania Jordan

Easy Prey
“I didn’t know everything that I know now. All of the mistakes I made as a mom, I am now using that to educate every family so they can avoid those same things.” - Titania Jordan Share on X

In this episode, we shine a light on the sinister phenomenon of virtual kidnapping. From deceptive phone calls to the psychological manipulation tactics, join us as we delve into the dark world where fears are exploited for profit, leaving victims shaken and families torn apart. 

Today’s guest is Titania Jordan. Titania is a nationally renowned tech, social media, and family expert who has appeared on programs such as the Today Show, Good Morning America, Fox News, CNN, and more. She is the author and founder of Parenting in a Tech World and serves as Chief Parent Officer of the online safety company Bark Technologies.

“The level of deceit and mastermind behind all this is pretty incredible. The lengths to which these bad actors will go to to concoct stories, extract funds, and elicit media from these victims.” - Titania Jordan Share on X

Show Notes:

“Children are victims every single day. Whether it is the rise in sextortion or bullying schemes that escalate to more or drug and alcohol related issues, there are so many things that are problematic in this unmonitored and… Share on X

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Transcript:

Titania, thank you for coming on back to the Easy Prey Podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure.

Awesome. So for those that didn't hear your previous interview from I think about two years ago, can you give the audience a little bit of background about who you are and what you do?

Titania Jordan is my name, and protecting kids online in real life is my game. It's a horrible, horrible, cheesy thing to say, but no, it's not a game. It's actually very serious, and that's what I'm tasked with. That's my mission in life.

As the Chief Parenting Officer at Bark Technologies, we help to protect close to seven million children across the nation using artificial intelligence to alert parents and caregivers to digital dangers, whether it's dangerous content or dangerous people that are usually buried deep within children's digital signal. Not only is that what I do professionally, but I'm also a mom, so I'm living this in real time.

That's good that, for you, it's practical and not theoretical. It's easy for people who don't have kids or their kids are grown up and out to say, “Here's what you should do.” It's a little different when you have children of your own that you're living it.

Yeah, I am feeling the pain acutely with a son who is now in high school and unfortunately, I didn't know everything that I know now when he was five, six, seven, eight. All of the mistakes that I made as his mom, I'm now using that and helping to educate every family I can so they can avoid those same things.

That's awesome. I appreciate the work that you do. I know lots of people who love your guys' product and speak very highly of it. I'm really happy with the service that you guys are providing.

Today, we're going to talk about, I guess it's somewhat a trending type of cybercrime, and that's virtual or cyber kidnapping, and there’s a particular news story we'll talk about. Is there a difference between virtual and cyber kidnapping, or are they basically the same thing and just a terminology thing?

To me, they're basically the same thing. Any kidnapping that doesn't involve an actual moving of a human in real life from one place to another against their will falls into that category.

Got you. Let's talk about back in January, there was a national news story about a teen foreign exchange student who got caught up in a virtual kidnapping and a ransom was paid. Can you go through and give us a rundown of what happened in that story?

He was contacted by what he thought was Chinese government officials and coerced, convinced, to self-isolate in Utah, I believe. Essentially, he was living in fear, his family was living in fear for his safety, and all for nothing. It was a scam. Thankfully, he was found healthy and alive, but that's not always the case.

Was the situation where the scammer was talking to both him and his parents at the same time telling him to do things that would provide evidence to the family that he actually physically had been kidnapped?

Yeah, the level of deceit and the mastermind behind all of this is pretty incredible. The lengths to which these bad actors will go to concoct stories and essentially extract information, funds, and illicit media from these victims.

Yeah, the level of deceit and the mastermind behind all of this is pretty incredible. The lengths to which these bad actors will go to concoct stories and essentially extract information, funds, and illicit media from these… Share on X

Yeah, it's particularly disturbing. Is there a particular type of individual or family that these criminals are targeting or is it pretty much wide range?

Two-part answer. In this specific case that actually prompted the FBI to release a public service announcement on January 3rd of 2024 letting people know that Chinese police imposters incorporate aggressive tactics to target the US-based Chinese community. This is a problem so much so that there's an FBI PSA out now. That is one specific demographic that is being targeted.

That said, based on our work at Bark and my work in the online safety space, children, and adults too, are victims every single day, whether it's the rise in sextortion or bullying schemes that escalate to more drug- and alcohol-related issues, cyber bullying issues. There are so many things that are problematic about this digital environment that are unmonitored and unfiltered.

Yeah, scams are on the rise. Children are being harmed at increasingly alarming levels. In addition to this particular story, I would say the next thing to really be concerned about is the rise in sextortion, particularly of our older teenage boys. They're vulnerable, as you would imagine.

They think they're talking to somebody they might be interested in. Conversation turns to more romantic conversation, then you send a photo, potentially a nude photo or video, and all of a sudden you realize that is not a love interest. It's a bad actor on the other end, and if you don't send them more photos, more videos, or money, they're going to bring shame to you and threaten to harm you or your family.

Unfortunately, so many older teenage boys in particular are resorting to dying by suicide instead of reaching out and letting somebody know what happened to them, and that's heartbreaking.

Unfortunately, so many older teenage boys in particular are resorting to dying by suicide instead of reaching out and letting somebody know what happened to them, and that's heartbreaking. -Titania Jordan Share on X

It's insane the amount of effort and lack of morality that scammers are going to. It's just solely about the money to them and we don't care what happens to the people involved, and we're not even going to pretend to care about the people involved.

It is so cold, it is so heartless, it is so evil to actually see some of the conversations that have been published between these bad actors and these victims of basically trying to call their bluff, like, “Go ahead, just kill yourself. It'll be better for you if you're not here when this gets released.” Who as a human does that?

One thing that's a bot and then sometimes there's a bot, but an actual human being on the other end of that encourages somebody to do that. There's a special place and a special place for them.

To me, it doesn't really matter whether it's a bot or it's a human. The human designed the bot to do things that were morally reprehensible, so in my mind, it’s the same thing. The bot portion of it is scary in that it becomes infinitely scalable, whereas with human involvement, at least there's time and effort of a physical individual that has to be involved.

You're absolutely right.

With the virtual kidnapping, in my mind, I see two of these types of situations. One where the kidnapper in the Utah case specifically targeted a specific student and manipulated him to provide the evidence to make the kidnapping more real to the parents that are in another country.

But I've also seen a rise in news stories, usually seems to be college women, that they've been voice-cloned and there's a call made to the parents saying, “Hey, I've got your daughter,” or “Hey, mom. Hey, dad, I've been kidnapped.” Sometimes it's a one-person scam. Sometimes both sides are being targeted.

How are they going about doing these scams? Then how do we make a dent against them?

I'm so glad you asked because that's what's critical, is to empower not only ourselves as adults, parents,  grandparents, but empower the next generation that's growing up in this crazy world.

Every family listening right now needs to reach out to relatives and children and say, “Hey, this is going to be our word so that if somebody takes our voice and uses it, tries to use it against us, we'll know this is either a real… Share on X

To the latter part of your question, having a safe word to vet out possible scams is critical. Every family listening right now needs to reach out to relatives and children and say, “Hey, this is going to be our word so that if somebody takes our voice and uses it, tries to use it against us, we'll know this is either a real or a fake threat.” Have a safe word. It might sound silly. You might think, “It can't happen to me.” Better safe than sorry. What's the harm? Take you two minutes, figure out the word, and land on it.

The next thing is to really pay attention to stories like this. In this information overload world that we're living in, it's easy to tune out the news, podcasts, YouTube shorts, and Instagram reels and all of that, but really try to be selective about what information you are taking in and pay attention. Please don't completely disconnect from what's happening in the world because you don't want to find yourself not in the know.

Another essential tech tip is to keep location tracking on phones and other mobile devices, especially for young children. This is nuanced. You don't want to have your children be using publicly available location tracking. They don't need to be public on snap maps where anybody in the world can see their location, but the built-in location tracking that comes with devices, etc., is important because in the case of this Utah incident, if the family had the son’s real-time location, they could have figured out where he was and gotten to him a lot sooner.

There's also software built-in parental controls that you can use to approve or not approve contacts in the first place. Bark can alert you if your children are disclosing PII, personally identifiable information. That's another thing to really talk about with kids is making sure if and when they do have a digital footprint, there's as little information about them out there. Don't use your real name and username. Please don't use your school name. Your graduation year, where you play school, your birthdate. Any information that's out there about you can be used against you, so don't do that. Stop doing that.

That's another thing to really talk about with kids is making sure if and when they do have a digital footprint, there's as little information about them out there. Don't use your real name and username. Please don't use your… Share on X

I think particularly about voice cloning, that there does need to be a certain amount of training data. For someone like you or me where there are hours and hours and hours of training data for us, but my wife, there's very little publicly available audio of her talking.

We were having that conversation, I don't know, I think maybe as a result of the Utah virtual kidnapping, of like, “Hey, we really do need to have a safe word and a distress word, more likely that it's going to come from her getting a phone call claiming to be me than the other way around just because there's more audio of me out there.

But it makes me think of the kids that there's so much of us online digitally now that we're, “Hey, here I am in on vacation,” even if you're doing the good practices of not posting your videos of your vacation while you're actually out of town, but you're still posting a video with audio that can then be used for training data.

100%.

I wouldn't want to tell someone to never post anything online, never post a picture, never record an audio, or be a digital hermit. That's not a practical solution these days. The safe word, or distress word, or whichever one you want to use seems to be a good option.

Another thing to think about, too, is being careful when you're answering the phone from a number you don't know, because even if you don't have a strong digital footprint or a large volume of stuff out there with your likeness, just answering the phone with a few seconds of your voice can then be taken the wrong way.

I hadn't thought about that, about the wrong numbers.

Right, the wrong numbers. You think it's spam and it could be a bad actor. When in doubt, send a voicemail. If it's important, they will leave you one. If it's important, they will text you.

What are some of the signs of a virtual kidnapping? Let's say a family doesn't have a safe word or a distress word and something, and grandpa gets the phone call from his granddaughter off in college, and it sounds like her, what do you do? Or what are the signs and then what do you do?

It's so early in terms of humanity having to deal with this that it's still evolving. But one element is that the target will be locked out of their own social media accounts, unable to access or update them, but that's more of an internal sign.

According to the FBI, it starts with initial contact to the victim from the bad actor and the victim's loved ones then it's scare tactics. Then it's surveillance of the victim, and then extortion.

When in doubt, or God forbid if this happens to you, you've got to go to law enforcement. They will be the ones that can help you discern what's a real threat, what's a credible threat, and what's not. You absolutely need to report it despite what the threat might be and lean on the professionals to help you.

When in doubt, or God forbid if this happens to you, you've got to go to law enforcement. They will be the ones that can help you discern what's a real threat, what's a credible threat, and what's not. -Titania Jordan Share on X

That seems to be the consistent thing I hear in these kinds of ransom things. The ransom person telling them, “Whatever you do, don't go to the authorities.” “That sounds like what I should be doing.”

Yeah, whatever they tell you to do, do the opposite. Full disclosure, I'm not an FBI negotiator. Please don't take what I say for any legal or healthcare advice. But if it's happening to me, that's what I'm doing no matter what they tell me.

I think that would be my perspective also, if I've got a second phone that I can dial 911 on and turn the volume down where I can't hear them, but they can hear my side of the conversation.

Even if you really are afraid of their threats, use an end-to-end encrypted form of media. You can download WhatsApp, Kick, or Signal and reach out to somebody and say, “Hey, this is happening. I need you to contact law enforcement because I know your house isn't bugged or whatever.”

That's like the next level. When you're in duress, you're probably not going to be thinking of that, especially if you're not tech savvy whatsoever. Do not fear has got to be the common theme. You have to regain control of your safety, of your family's safety, and put these bad actors in their place.

But I think part of it is we're having this conversation. You said when you're emotional in the midst of it, you're not going to think, “Hey, I need to do end-to-end encrypted communication with someone else to have them verify.” I think the whole point of the conversation that we're having is having a plan; if something does happen, you're now not having to make it up on the fly.

That's what I meant to say.

I'm one of those people that I don't think it's paranoia. I try to, whenever I walk into a building, I always just make it part of my mindset is, “Where's the alternative exit? If something were to happen, what's the other way to get out of here?”

Our mind is wired such that when we walk into a building, we know how to go back out the way that we came, but if there's a fire and that way is blocked, in the moment of the panic, we don't know what to do. So I always try to think, “If I walk into a building, walk into a business, where's the other way out of this location for safety purposes?”

I think the same thing applies to these sorts of cases. If I get a call that's suspicious, “OK. I know what I'm supposed to do. I know I'm supposed to call the police. I know I'm supposed to….” Surprisingly what people don't seem to do, reach out to the person who you think you're supposedly getting the kidnapping call from.

I've heard lots of these stories of the person of, “Oh, my gosh. It sounded like my daughter, and I was about to pay my ransom and my husband said, ‘Did you call her to find out?’” They make the phone call and it's like, “Oh no, I'm fine. I just got out of a sociology class, and I'm heading back to the dorm.” “Did you just call us?” “No.”

I'll never forget getting a phone call from my dad a few years ago in the middle of the night. Of course, I'm thinking he's having a heart attack, terrifying. He was so shaken up because somebody had called him and said that they had his daughters. I can't imagine the fear, and it's horrific.

Back to your point, it is never a bad idea to be prepared, whether it's making sure you have a couple of days of water in your house in case something happens, batteries, flashlights. The same precautions we take in the real world in case something happens to give us peace of mind, we now need to apply to the digital world too, especially with our children spending upwards of eight hours a day or more connected. It is not as separate as our generation thinks. It's very much commingled.

The same precautions we take in the real world in case something happens to give us peace of mind, we now need to apply to the digital world too, especially with our children spending upwards of eight hours a day or more connected.… Share on X

Growing up, or when the Internet came around after we were more or less grown up, it was, “This is the Internet. This is life.” And they were two very separate things. Now the digital and the physical world are very blurred. For a lot of people, they spend probably more time involved in the digital world than they do interacting with people face-to-face.

Exactly, and there's so much that comes from that, too, from the social-emotional element of just when you're in real life, you're kinder. You're not as apt to make fun of, or hurt, or joke. There's more empathy; there are more connections.

You remove that human element of connection and empathy, and then you almost throw fuel on the fire of risk-taking and danger. When you're in front of a screen, or playing a game, or seeing a notification from an app, it's stimulating the pleasure centers of your brain, now there are addictive chemicals involved. It's a lot and it's not easy, but it is absolutely worthwhile pursuing how to protect our families.

It's interesting. I'm thinking about just specifically the virtual kidnapping and the cyber kidnapping, whatever you want to call it, and Bark’s general views that a lot of this is an opportunity to have a conversation. While this is not specifically what you guys deal with in virtual kidnappings, this is stuff that you should have a conversation about before it happens, and it's an inroad to having a conversation about what you are doing online, how are you interacting with people, and what should we do when we get those weird phone calls.

And if you don't know where to start, use this podcast. Listen to it with your kids. Google digital kidnapping, extortion, sextortion, if your child's old enough.

It's one thing to tell your children about things that are potentially scary. A lot of times I've done this with my own parents, like, “OK, that's not going to happen. Not too worried about it. You’re just worried about me because you're my parent.” But if you Google news stories of things that have actually happened to other people and just say, “I don't want this to happen to you, to us, so let's figure out how we can make sure this doesn't happen to us.” Not that it will, but if we have a plan, it's less likely to, and it makes it more real for them.

I wonder if, not that I'm trying to plant ideas in scammers’ heads, and I haven't heard a whole lot about the flipping the script on the virtual kidnapping and it's the kids getting calls from grandpa saying, “Hey, I'm having a heart attack,” or, “I'm on the way to the hospital,” or, “I need help with this medical bill because something happened.”

Usually, it seems to be flipped the other way where it's the parents who are being targeted. I wonder if the day is coming when the kids are now going to be targeted with scams about their parents.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's never a dull day in the world of AI, tech, and social media, but I think that hopefully and thankfully this generation is slightly more savvy and more aware and honestly, just more skeptical.

This generation does not necessarily take things at face value, so they will ask questions and poke holes. Hopefully, once they move beyond the fear of the in-the-moment terror, they can say, “Wait a minute. Is this real?”

I wonder if it's an interesting entry point into having a conversation with your kids, as opposed to saying, “Hey, I'm hearing other kids are being targeted with this,” but to say, “Gosh, I hear that people, my generation, are being targeted with this. What do you think some of the things that I should do are?”

Yeah, flip the script and and ask your children to help you do a safety audit. Like, “Hey, I use the same password for everything. Is that a bad idea?” Talk about it. That's what's key in having a strong relationship with your friends and family. Multiple candid conversations about these issues and really talking through and navigating it together. Your kids will probably give you a few gems. Hopefully, they have a strong digital citizenship curriculum in school and then they're learning things that they can teach you.

I'm sure even if it's not the stuff they're learning in school, there are plenty of stuff they're learning online and hearing about that they can say, “Hey, dad. I heard about this scam. Hey, mom. I heard about this thing that's targeting parents of college students.”

One of the more recent things that I'm warning parents about that I bet their kids have seen before they have seen is the rise in deep fake sexting scams involving young women and young men, but children, essentially. -Titania… Share on X

One of the more recent things that I'm warning parents about that I bet their kids have seen before they have seen is the rise in deep fake sexting scams involving young women and young men, but children, essentially. All it takes is one screenshot of their face and somebody can put that face on a simulated body and spread misinformation around about them.

All it takes is one screenshot of their face and somebody can put that face on a simulated body and spread misinformation around about them. -Titania Jordan Share on X

It's happening and your kids have probably heard about it and it's important for you to know, talk to them, and then know what your options are whether it's to report it to NCMEC, the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, to have them take it down—they have a take-it-down initiative—to your local law enforcement or your Internet Crimes Against Children Unit for your state if you're listening and you're in the United States.

It is a crime. There are proposed bills out there now. Obviously, our law does not move as quickly as heck, but they're trying, so again, it's never a dull day. There's always something new and you've got to work together with your very savvy children to discuss and then plan.

Are there any other emerging trends, things that have just started happening within the last couple of months, types of scams that you're aware of?

It's the deep fake porn and sexting scams that are causing a great deal of harm, both immediate and long term.

Yeah, those are particularly awful. As we wrap up here, are there any other warnings and just general, “Hey, watch out for, or if you hear this, be suspicious” types of suggestions for the audience?if it feels off, it probably is off. So don't hesitate to report, ask for help, and surface it. -Titania Jordan Share on X

I wish there was an easy five-point list to watch. There is not. However, if it feels off, it probably is off. So don't hesitate to report, ask for help, and surface it. You made an excellent point earlier. Just reaching out to the victim in question. Don't take the hacker's word for it. Make sure you can confirm that there is an actual danger.

Don't put any PII out there that you don't have to. Personally identifiable information can and will be used against you. Don't put it out there—your name, where you live, where you work, where you go to school. Even posting that picture of your birthday cake on Instagram on your birthday gives it away without telling everybody. Just share information with a close private circle.

Don't put any PII out there that you don't have to. Personally identifiable information can and will be used against you. Don't put it out there—your name, where you live, where you work, where you go to school. -Titania Jordan Share on X

You don't need to put it all out there like Chris and I have done. We're super out there but it's for a purpose. If you don't have a purpose like one of us, lock it down. Keep it tight.

I know you're talking about birthdays. I know someone who was thinking far enough in advance that when he created his Facebook account, probably a decade ago now, he did not use his real birthday. It's funny because as soon as it comes up on Facebook people wish him a happy birthday. He's like, “I know who really knows me and who doesn't, because whether they're celebrating my real birthday or my virtual birthday.”

I'm shell-shocked by that, honestly, because I have done that. I've emailed people like, “Oh, happy birthday.” “You silly goose, it's not my real birthday. I just told that to Facebook,” and then I feel silly like a goose. But it's smart and smart. They don't owe you anything. They're monetizing your eyeballs, so don't give them more than you need to.

Awesome. If people want to find out more about you, not for educational purposes, to learn more about scams and learn more about Bark, not to try to get you, where can they find you? And where can they find out more about Bark?

If you want to keep your kids safer online and in real life, I strongly encourage you to check out Bark. It's bark.us. We have an app. We have a product for schools and we have a safer smartphone that I wish existed when my son got his first smartphone. We would avoid a lot of issues.

If you'd like to connect with me personally, my unique name is Titania Jordan; there aren't too many of them across the globe. I'm on all the places: Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, Facebook, YouTube, all the places. Feel free to search for me and connect with me. I'd love to connect with you.

Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Titania.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me and for all you do to protect and empower the public.

You're very welcome.

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